Upon the 2007 MVP- Part 2
OK, so my commenter thinks that David Wright is the NL MVP thus far. I think that the case is strong, but I have to wonder: Why does Matt Holliday get disregarded? Nearly every statistic that can be measured based on performance favors him over Wright. Wright has more steals, but the same number of runs scored, so the stat becomes moot. If you are not crossing the plate more, or driving guys in more, steals don't do much for your value over another player.
Win shares, VORP...etc, are made- up stats. If you use them to "break the tie" between equal players, it makes sense as another level of comparison. However, there is no tie in terms of performance:
Batting Average:
Holliday- 2nd in NL (.334)
Wright- 9th in NL (.316)
RBI:Holliday- 2nd in NL (113)
Wright-9th in NL (95)
OBP:Wright- 6th in NL (.411)
Holliday- 9th in NL (.394)
OPS:Holliday- 6th in NL (.970)
Wright- 8th in NL (.954)
HR:Wright (28)Holliday (27)
Runs:Wright (98)Holliday (97)
Slugging:Holliday- 3rd in NL- (.576)
Wright- 11th in NL- (.544)
Even if you want to throw steals in, Holliday bats 30 points better with 20 more RBI and the same number of runs scored and HR. If you like made up stats, Holliday's season vs his Marcels batting is superior. (didn't think I followed fake stats?)
posted by Charlie at 4:07 PM
9 Comments:
Something to ponder: What would their respective numbers look like if they switched ballparks? Wright would hit .350 at Coors Field. I'll have more comments later. Enjoy your Bday.
Just checked home/away splits. Holliday hitting .365 with 55 runs, 19 homers and 65 ribbies at home and .303 with 42 runs, 8 homers and 48 ribbies on the road.
Last year's AL MVP candidates had the following stats:
Player 1: .343 average, 14 homers, 118 runs, 97 ribbies, .416 OBP and .483 slugging.
Player 2: .321 average, 34 homers, 97 runs, 130 ribbies, .375 OBP and .559 slugging.
Player 3: .286 average, 115 runs, 54 homers, 137 ribbies, .412 OBP and .636 slugging.
Palyer 4: .315 average, 44 homers, 103 runs, 120 ribbies, .384 OBP and .621 slugging.
Players 3 and 4 had the best stats while player 1 had the worst, yet player 2 won and player 1 came in second. Why? Because the Yanks and the Twins made the playoffs while Boston and Chicago did not. You thought player 1 should have won last year, but question whether DW deserves to win this year, although player 1 had fewer ribbies and runs combined than DW will have this year, a substantially lower OPS, and fewer than 1/2 the homers. Please reconcile your support for Jeter last year with your questioning of DW this year and explain why Holliday is more deserving this year than either player 3 (Papi) or player 4 (Dye) were last year.
Let's see:
1) First, though I do feel that Derek Jeter was the MVP of the whole league, my largest gripe was with him coming in second to Morneau. If Morneau was the third best guy on his own team, he can not be the most valuable in the league. If the consensus was that they were the 1 and 2 in the league, then I can't see how Morneau wins over Jeter. We've been through our respective positions on that debate.
2) I don't necessarily support Holliday, so much as wonder why you dismissed him with a "forget Holliday". I think that he has a case, and is not an out of hand reject.
3) Jeter never went in the tank last year. Wright has at times this year, as Morneau did last year. If you are awesome and consistent, I think that beats awesome and streaky. If the Mets can have a big division lead with Wright in the tank, I think that it shows that they can succeed despite him, just as recently they are excelling in large part because of him. Much of NY was ready to crown Reyes the MVP for the beginning of the year.
4) Papi is a DH, no MVP without a HUGE, undeniable statistical edge for DHs.
5) Where are the steals you love so much in the last year comparison? I'd be willing to bet Jeter beats Papi and Dye in that stat. What about win shares? (I am asking more so I dont have to look them up, I don't really have a point to argue.)
My only problem with the Papi is a DH argument is that Ryan Howard was MVP last year and he should be a DH. He is absolutely the worst fielding, fattest slob in all of baseball and belongs in the AL. Whereas Howard hurts his team in the field, Papi does not. Papi did not deserve to win last year b/c his team did not make the playoffs. Morneau deserved to win b/c he carried his team to the playoffs and they did not stand a chance without him, Jeter probably deserved second over Papi and Dye b/c his team made the playoffs.
If you think Wright has gone in the tank "at times" this year you have not been paying attention. I have marveled at his consistency this year and absolutely fallen in love with him as a player on account of it. After a crappy firts 6 weeks or so, he has brought his statistics to awesome levels by grinding away at an alarmingly consistent rate by going 2 for 4 or 1 for 3 with a walk almost every night. He got his average up to .316 from the low .200's without going on any rediculous tears which included 4 for 4 for 4 or 5 for 5 nights. He is such an incredible gringer (like Jeter) who shows up every night and never gives away an at bat. He's Jeter with power. If you watched the Mets more, you woudl truly appreciate that comparison.
You'll be pleased to learn that Jeter blew Morneau away last year in winshares (33-27) and was, for the only time in his career, a darling of the sabermetrics crowd. However, I stand by my Morneau vote b/c the award is most "valuable" and Morneau carried the Twins from June 1 through September 30 last year. I just remember seeing a lot of big homers to win games in the second half when the Twinkies went on their sick run and, to me, that is what the award is all about. Yanks make the playoffs last year with Buckey Dent at short. Twins miss out without Morneau. Ryan Howard came in 6th in the NL last year, although he won the MVP. Pujols led in winshares with Beltran only one behind. Beltran led all season but was passed in late September b/c he injured his knee making a sick, game-saving catch against the fence in Houston.
Charlie,
Thought you might find the following illuminating:
Whichever side you fall on in the argument, here are the guidelines as they appear on the ballots distributed by the Baseball Writers Association of America:
"There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.
The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:
1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. Number of games played.
3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. Former winners are eligible.
5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.
You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot. Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.
Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, including pitchers and designated hitters."
Just looked up DW's stats since you said he has gone in the tank "at times" this year. After a bad April. he hit .294 in May with 8 homers, .323 in June with 6 homers, .333 in July with 4 homers, and .394 in August with 6 homers. He's been consistently excellent since April with no slumps.
Charlie, the hype machine is getting behind Holliday for bringing the Rockies back into the WC race, although he was injured and didn't play when they swept the Padres this weekend. No matter how the morons vote, DW gets my vote, unless the Mets collapse and Filly wins the division. Then I go with Jroll. Just can't stand voting for homers and ribbies alone. There is so much more to the game.
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